a doctrinal statement. That is the question.
I was unable to attend the last monthly network meeting so I sent an email advising everyone that I would not be able to make it. I submitted the following subject for discussion:
4/7/2006
It has become evident, due to receiving no feedback, and from talking with some other fellowships, that the idea of pooling resources in an Association of Phoenix House Churches is not God's plan for us at the moment. I will not pursue this further unless there appears to be interest from other house churches. I do feel that if we are to see something like a Parousia Network here in Phoenix, it may be necessary for the house churches to help in the support of a person with a similar apostolic calling and vision. I have become aware and concerned that there needs to be some way to be sure that house churches listed on the website are teaching historical doctrines of the Christian faith. I'm sure you would agree that we would not want to recommend to someone a church fellowship that was teaching bad doctrine. I feel like a brief description of the basis of our beliefs should be on the website and then ask for assurance from each house church or network that they hold those essential positions. This would be something like the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed. I ask for your input and comments on this.After a slight delay, a very healthy email discourse has begun. To make it easy to follow, I am listing below the comments shared up till now. When more are received, I will post a follow-up.
Thanks to those who jumped into the discussion. I appreciate the love and unity that we are experiencing here. I hope that more will let their thoughts be known.
4/17/2006
Larry - this is Damon Rich from the Big House group. I like your
suggestion to put some kind of doctrinal statement on the website to
make sure that those who want to be affiliated are adhering to sound
doctrine. I think that either one on the creeds that you mentioned
would at least be a good start. That's my two cents worth. I
appreciate all of the work that you have put into the website. Keep up
the good work!
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4/18/2006
In your note below you said, "I have become aware and concerned that
there needs to be some way to be sure that house churches listed on
the website are teaching historical doctrines of the Christian
faith." Can you expand on what you are becoming aware and concerned
about? I think it would help to stimulate a discussion on this issue.
I would suggest some strong prayer and conversation about setting up
a creed or format to ensure that the house churches of Phoenix are
teaching orthodoxy. That is not to say that I am not for being
orthodox in my theology, I certainly am! Possibly a broad statement
of faith would be helpful. We must be careful not to inadvertently
apply forms that may hinder the expansion of the work the Spirit has
begun. The Holy Spirit is able to guard the truth and if we are in
relationship, then some of us will know what others of us are doing,
teaching, writing and saying. Accountability will rise up out of
this. I would much rather rely on deep relationships to raise the
flag of heresy or lack of orthodoxy than a statement of truths that
we sign off on. I'm not opposed to a statement of common beliefs,
but I would never want that statement to be poured in concrete (the
Bible is the only document to be poured in concrete :-) nor would I
want it to become the first line of defense against theological
problems.
You probably are not inferring any of the issues that my questions
address, but I'm simply speaking for myself and my concerns. If you
or any of the recipients of this letter have other comments, please
chime in!
(Ed Waken)
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4/18/2006
In regard to beliefs:
I believe the best direction would be to understand our FREEDOM and how to live in the FREEDOM that was given to us by the passionate work of Christ.
This FREEDOM is not to be taken for granted but instead lived to the fullest in reaching out to invite people to come closer to Christ and living in HIM.
I would love to be part of something that encouraged us to learn HOW to WALK with brothers and sisters who share a different perspective on some of the scriptures - if we don't the BODY will never be built.
If we are able to figure out GOD in a statement of belief - where is the mystery - how does that line up with what God says to JOB (even if I told you - you could not understand).
Didn't Jesus shatter this concept in his day - the Triumphal Entry - all the "religious" had their "rabbinical ways and customs to adhere too" and Jesus wanted nothing to do with them.
It reminds me of the movie "Braveheart" - FREEDOM is starting to occur - then all of their leaders want their WAY observed - FREEDOM is crushed.
As followers - our mission statement is captured by the words of Christ - "Free the captives" this captivity is sin - including religious ways or "yoke".
Of course ultimately 1John 2:27 allows us to check what each person says - so we are not misled - hopefully we will lean on this anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT for our understanding.
(Kevin Rice)
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4/19/2006
This is what we put together as a way to communicated to those interested in
our house church what we believe. We did it as a group and it took several
meetings.
We did this after being involved in a house church for 6 months and then
discovered that they truly did not accept the NT as inspired by the Holy
Spirit. We felt very defrauded.
I feel it is very important to be upfront with your basic beliefs, not as a
law, nor as a creed. But you need to know what you believe, both as an
individual and as a person, and are able to communicate it to others.
(Harry Aungst)
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4/19/2006
This discussion on statements of faith is really good. I hope more
will choose to chime in. I have discussed with many organic church
and network leaders across the country the ideas floating around in
this conversation. I would strongly suggest that each organic/simple/
house church and network of organic/simple/house churches, come up
with a statement of faith. Some groups publish them, some don't.
The principle is, like Harry stated, you need to know what you
believe and you need to be able to communicate it to others. I think
this is important.
Regarding a movement (that is what is happening in Arizona and across
the country and world), I think we need a different tact. A movement
is larger in scope than a local organic church or even a network of
local organic churches. Therefore a movement will by necessity have
to be more flexible. It will certainly include Evangelicals,
Calvinists, Armenians, Charismatic, Third Wave, Pentecostals,
Cessationists, potentially some Mainliners and maybe even
Baptists :-) . All of these groups need to have their own statements
of beliefs. However, together (in a movement) we are moving to
encourage each other forward, to share the principles and experiences
that God gives us, to assist one another along the organic journey
and in unity to point the way of mission to a world that needs the
truth and touch of Christ.
Already in the Arizona Organic Movement, I personally know that each
of the above theological categories are represented and we have been
linking arms and running together for a few years now. No tension
nor fights have erupted that I am aware of and much ground has been
taken in unity.
If you look at other movements like house2house (house2house.com),
CMA (cmaresources.org) or even George Patterson's influence (http://
www.homestead.com/mentorandmultiply/Patterson.html) you will not find
statements of faith on these sites (at least I couldn't). However if
you go to organic network websites like apexchurch.org in Las Vegas,
thequestcolumbus.com in Columbus, Ohio and valleylifechurch.org here
in Phoenix, you'll find statements of faith.
If there is a unified desire to have a statement of faith for the
Arizona Organic Churches, then I would suggest to begin by looking at
the National Evangelical Association (NEA) Statement of Faith. Below
I've pasted both the USA and UK version - interesting that they are
somewhat different (which I hope makes my point about it all).
Let's keep the discussion going...here are the NEA's statement of faith.
US National Evangelical Alliance Statement of Faith
We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible,
authoritative Word of God.
We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three
persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin
birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and
atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in
His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal
return in power and glory.
We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people,
regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.
We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose
indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.
We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they
that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost
unto the resurrection of damnation.
We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus
Christ, and the evidence of that unity being shown by how we love one
another.
British Evangelical Alliance Statement of Faith
Evangelical Christians accept the revelation of the triune God given
in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments and confess the
historic faith of the Gospel therein set forth. They here assert
doctrines which they regard as crucial to the understanding of the
faith, and which should issue in mutual love, practical Christian
service and evangelistic concern.
The sovereignty and grace of God the Father, God the Son and God the
Holy Spirit in creation, providence, revelation, redemption and final
judgement.
The divine inspiration of the Holy Scripture and its consequent
entire trustworthiness and supreme authority in all matters of faith
and conduct.
The Universal sinfulness and guilt of fallen man, making him subject
to God's wrath and condemnation.
The substitutionary sacrifice of the incarnate Son of God as the sole
and all-sufficient ground of redemption from the guilt and power of
sin, and from its eternal consequences.
The justification of the sinner solely by the grace of God through
faith in Christ crucified and risen from the dead.
The illuminating, regenerating, indwelling and sanctifying work of
God the Holy Spirit.
The priesthood of all believers, who form the universal Church, the
Body of which Christ is the Head, and which is committed by His
command to the proclamation of the Gospel throughout the world.
The expectation of the personal, visible return of the Lord Jesus
Christ in power and glory.
(Ed Waken)
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4/19/2006
This is really great. I love the dialog. I encourage others to
present their points of view. When replying, if you notice that someone
you know that should be in this discussion is not on the distribution, please
add them and do a reply all.
I have been following the discussion below and observing what others are
doing. Last night, at our bi-weekly prayer time, Chad reminded us
that we need to focus on those things that unite us and not on the things that
divide us. Amen! to that. That was the spirit of my original
comment and I love how God has used this to bring about this dialog.
I agree completely with Ed's comments regarding the movement we are seeing here
in Phoenix. There is and will continue to be a great diversity among the
different churches and networks. Personally, I love it! I also
agree with Kevin's remarks about our freedom in Christ. I believe that
each group should be able to articulate their own statement of belief which is
agreed upon by all the members. That could be a very difficult process
for some. Then when new people visit the group, there is no
misunderstanding about the areas of doctrine held by the group. Harry's
experience below is an example of what can happen otherwise.
As for the statement of faith, my original thought was that when people who are
interested in the local house church movement view the website, they would get
a sense that we, meaning the churches and networks referenced therein, are
united in some of the very basic and historical Christian
doctrines. This is something that some people want to know before
diving in and actually calling someone.
All that being said, I solicit continued discourse on putting some type of
minimal statement of faith on the website. Should there be
one? Should a traditional creed, such as the Apostles Creed, Nicene
Creed, or the NAE statement of faith mentioned by Ed be used or should one be
created? Share your thoughts.
(Larry)
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4/19/2006
I was not going to speak up at all, for my opinion is not that much different then a blend of the majority. I agree with Chad WE need to focus on things that unite us. I have been a proponent of writing a Statement of belief for our church and we are working on one that will be added to our webpage upon completion. Where my confusion rest is in the Statement of faith that is being discussed for development to be added to the phoenixhousechurch webpage, I was under the understanding when asked about the development of this webpage the reason for its conception was for a few reasons:
To be a resource for individuals to see if a house church exist in there area.
To see how God is growing His Kingdom among the multiplication of house churches in Arizona
To be used as a tool to keep up and support one another’s events
And to accomplish just what its says under Mission and Goal section of the webpage too:
The mission of the Phoenix Area House Churches is to network Phoenix and Central Arizona house churches with one another for the purposes of mutual encouragement, service, and outreach.
Through repentance, loving our neighbors, and making disciples, our goal is to see organic networks of churches throughout the Phoenix and the State of Arizona.
So for this reason I do not think that a common Statement of faith is necessary. I can see if Larry is not to sure of a particular house churches Biblical doctrine that wants to be added to the webpage then he could do one of a couple of things:
Get some other leaders advice
Attend a meeting with another Brother or Sister of this particular house church to see first hand what they do and may not do.
Bring it to the monthly leaders meeting to get some other leaders advice
Lastly, I know that at this time Big House is not interested in a common Vision for Giving, not to say WE would not be willing to listen to anyone that has a cause that God has laid on their hearts and would like to see if we collectively or individually would be willing to support such a cause. I also believe that there are more pressing issues for the house churches in AZ:
To come up with a vision statement for their own churches
To find ways to reach the lost here in AZ and abroad
To find local and world missions they can all become involved in
Well, with all this being said I look forward to working with you all to see Gods Kingdom continue to grow. I will also continue praying for God to mold, multiply, and mature His church. I pray that I will see more of you in attendance at the next Leaders meeting……
(Ralph Roberts)
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4/20/2006
Larry, having lived through the writing of a statement of faith for a Christian Home Schoolers group I would like to put my in my two cents worth. Don't sweat the small stuff and a basic-basic-basic thing is all you need. If you get too involved in details it only brings out the worst of peoples personalities. Those which seem to have the most sincere-rabid doctrines are really just so afraid and are living in fear that someone might just be a little off but really they are the ones who are being judgemental against their brothers and sisters. I say as long as someone says they are a Christian and calls Jesus Lord, they should be invited into the group. Let the Lord work out the little stuff. If all you want to do is let people with the exact same ideas in then you will never grow. No one person or group is totally right. Because if they were then they would be perfect and wouldn't need to be on this earth. Love and openness is what we need, if you are grounded in your faith it doen't matter if others are a little off. A general agreement that God is God and Jesus is his Son and there is a comforter here with us now. Jesus came, died on the cross, was buried, and rose on the third day. For pity sake read the Bible like you were a child and just go with it. don't worry about the Greek and the Hebrew or whatever. This stuff makes me mad. This discussion is wasting a lot of time as far as I am concerned. If you guys have this much energy get out on the street and start witnessing to people who could use it. Thanks for the opportunity.
(Debbie Spence)
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4/20/2006
The old creeds came about becuase of bad teaching in the church. We call them statements of faith. They are let others know where we stand.
I am not for an exhastive statement, but I think not having a basic statement is foolish and invites trouble. We need to let people know where we stand.
A basic statment such as one of the older creeds are generally generic enough to cover most theological possitions, but detailed enough so that reader know where we are coming from.
They should know we trust the bible as Gods word, that Jesus is Lord and Savior and so on.
Where I think we need to get detailed, is in our understanding and practice of church life. To be quite honest the real difference between us and an Institutional church is our way of practicing church life. There we need to be detailed so as not to mislead unintentionally.
So, I say the Apostle's creed and and good statement of house church practice and we are good to go.
(Henry Staggs)
