To have or not to have .... (continued)

a doctrinal statement on the Phoenix Area House Church website.

Below are more comments from those willing to jump into the discussion. Again, thanks to all who contributed.

04/20/2006

I believe what would be best for the Kingdom is to have networks of Christians. A network cannot be unequally yoked (2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?), and expect to see the Kingdom advanced through its efforts. There are certain basic truths that must be embraced in order for a person or church to be Christian. To just assume that everyone we come across who says they are a Christian is in fact a Christian is just asking for trouble. It seems that having a statement of beliefs that embodies what those beliefs are is one way of finding out if we are "compatible" for the purpose of a network. Be clear, for this purpose, I am not talking about fine doctrinal points. I am talking about the most basic doctrines of our faith.

Having said all that I believe this whole discussion is irrelevant if a committed, meaningful, difference-making network of churches does not exist. Lamentably, it seems to me that at this point such a network does not exist. Something good does exist between our churches, and I am thankful for it. However, if things stay the same between us and nothing more substantial emerges then I believe adopting a statement of beliefs for a network of churches in the Valley is much to do about nothing. Our energies would be better spent elsewhere.

Whether we like it or not we are choosing what we will or will not be by our actions. If together we are to become a force for the Kingdom in this Valley it will take sacrificial commitment to each other, not a commitment of convenience. I believe such a sacrifice is well worth it, and one I greatly desire to make with you. However if the reality is that such a commitment is just not possible then so be it. I believe what is needed most at this juncture is clarity about what we want to be. Then questions like having a statement of beliefs or not will be allot easier to make.

(Darrell Kilcup)
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04/20/2006

In your example of the group calling themselves a house church and they where teaching that we are gods from other planets and denying the bible. You asked if we need to do something. I know this is a rhetorical question, but the real issue here is the statement of faith. Do you think that if a group came along and said they agreed with the common statement of faith posted on the webpage and would love to be added to the phoenixhousechurch webpage without to much checking; that you still could end up with Wolves on the prowl. I do not need an answer, my point is that I believe in what Darrell said “Having said all that I believe this whole discussion is irrelevant if a committed, meaningful, difference-making network of churches does not exist. Lamentably, it seems to me that at this point such a network does not exist. Something good does exist between our churches, and I am thankful for it. However, if things stay the same between us and nothing more substantial emerges then I believe adopting a statement of beliefs for a network of churches in the Valley is much to do about nothing. Our energies would be better spent elsewhere.”

I am sorry if I was under the wrong information on what the website was to be used for, which is why I did not see a need for a “common” statement of faith. See I thought like I said before the reason for this website was:

To be a resource for individuals to see if a house church exist in there area.

To see how God is growing His Kingdom among the multiplication of house churches in Arizona

To be used as a tool to keep up and support one another’s events

And to accomplish just what its says under Mission and Goal section of the webpage too:

The mission of the Phoenix Area House Churches is to network Phoenix and Central Arizona house churches with one another for the purposes of mutual encouragement, service, and outreach.

Through repentance, loving our neighbors, and making disciples, our goal is to see organic networks of churches throughout the Phoenix and the State of Arizona.

If this is not the case then it changes the whole complexity of why you would be linked to this site. I thought if someone wanted to be added they would do some looking into the House churches already link to this website and see the statement of beliefs and/or statement of faiths attached to these house churches, and visa versa to check the integrity of the house church that is interested in being linked to the phxhousechurch website.

With all of this being said if it makes people feel more secure I would be willing to give my approval to the following Statement of Faith of The Evangelical Free Church of America (http://www.efca.org/about/doctrine/). I still strongly believe it is here nor there because like what Darrell said above it is “irrelevant if a committed, meaningful, difference-making network of churches does not exist” then it will be all for not. I also believe WE need some “common” clarity on what we want to be and how God would use us collectively and independently here in AZ and to the ends of the earth. I pray that God will continue to be the forefront of all the dialog. I will talk to you all later……………

(Ralph Roberts)
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04/20/2006

I do not see the problem here, is a common statement going to cause us to be devided is everyone so beated up by IC that we can not even make a simple statement of faith.

Do we all believe in the Bible as Gods word and our authority in all matters of faith and practice?

Do we all beleive in one God who is in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Do we all believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

Do we all believer in Jesus life, death and ressurection?

Do we all believe that by the grace of God through faith in Jesus we are saved?

That is about all there is to it right? What more do we need to know? What more do we need to say? And wouldn't someone know we are orthodoxed Christians by reading something like this?

Look, I seem to be the one always on the nay end of things, I just know that as the valley sees a growth in house churches and all over the nation for that matter we are going to find some hard times if we do not let people know right away what we are all about.

The network site is the first place many will go, it is the first thing many seeking house church life will read and it must be clear, simple but clear.

If you think I am wrong, just read up on Church history. The Church has always needed a common statement of faith, from the start.

By the way what is wrong with a common statement anyways, I trhough we where all talking about the same Jesus. Isn't he our commonality?

I just don't get the problem here, but I can see the danger.

Please forgive my zest, if you know me you know I am passionate for what I feel is right, but you also know that I say these thing I do in love and brotherhood.

(Henry Staggs)
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04/20/2006
Did you read all of what I wrote and click on web link I provided? I am confused by your statement of being beat up by Institutional Churches; I said if it would make people more secure, at peace then I would endorse a common statement of faith like the Faith of The Evangelical Free Church of America (http://www.efca.org/about/doctrine/). So what seems to be the problem? I am at a lost at where you are coming from. So, I took the liberty to copy and pasted the Faith of The Evangelical Free Church of America so Everyone can read if you did not take the time too.

Statement of Faith of The Evangelical Free Church of America

The doctrinal position of The Evangelical Free Church of America is summarized in our twelve-article Statement of Faith.

We Believe:

1. The Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, to be the inspired Word of God, without error in the original writings, the complete revelation of His will for the salvation of men and the Divine and final authority for Christian faith and life.
2. In one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect and eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
3. That Jesus Christ is true God and true man, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He died on the cross, a sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. Further, He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, where, at the right hand of the Majesty on High, He is now our High Priest and Advocate.
4. That the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and, during this age, to convict men, regenerate the believing sinner, and indwell, guide, instruct and empower the believer for godly living and service.
5. That man was created in the image of God but fell into sin and is, therefore, lost, and only through regeneration by the Holy Spirit can salvation and spiritual life be obtained.
6. That the shed blood of Jesus Christ and His Resurrection provide the only ground for justification and salvation for all who believe, and only such as receive Jesus Christ are born of the Holy Spirit and, thus become children of God.
7. That water baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances to be observed by the Church during the present age. They are, however, not to be regarded as means of salvation.
8. That the true Church is composed of all such persons who through saving faith in Jesus Christ have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and are united together in the Body of Christ of which He is the Head.
9. That only those who are, thus, members of the true Church shall be eligible for membership in the local church.
10. That Jesus Christ is the Lord and Head of the Church and that every local church has the right, under Christ, to decide and govern its own affairs.
11. In the personal and premillennial and imminent coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and that this "Blessed Hope" has a vital bearing on the personal life and service of the believer.
12. In the bodily resurrection of the dead; of the believer to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord; of the unbeliever to judgment and everlasting conscious punishment.

I think the problem beyond this is where WE need to gain clarity and as I said I just strongly believe it is here nor there because like what Darrell said in his e-mail it is “irrelevant if a committed, meaningful, difference-making network of churches does not exist” then it will be all for not. I think if everyone was to sit back and think about how committed we all need to be to see Gods kingdom expand then you would understand where I am coming from. May the Holy Spirit fill you all with great insight and a peaceful night….

(Ralph Roberts)