To have or not to have .... (continued #3)

a doctrinal statement.

More comments were received this morning in regards to my last email and post:


I like the Nicene creed and would favor using it as a network statement of faith. Thanks for all your work.

(Chad Irving)
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Sounds fine to me, I would have no problem with this statement at all.

(Henry Staggs)
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Dear Church,

Here is my two cents (ok 25 cents with inflation and price of gas these days - whew!). I apologize in advance for it being so long. This discussion has been helpful in many ways. It shows the desire to work together and move forward - you have to love that. I have read all of the responses, including Larry latest suggestion. Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth to you...

I would suggest that we do not have a creed or a statement of beliefs on our web page. I outlined earlier (in a letter to Ralph and all) why certain statement of faiths would not be agreeable to all sects of Christianity. The Nicene Creed contains this line, "I acknowledge one baptism for (the purpose of) the remission of sins" (parenthetical words are my addition). I read these words as baptismal regeneration and I do not believe that (If you don't read baptismal regeneration in these words, at least acknowledge others, like me, do). However, if one of you believed in baptismal regeneration, I am not going to break fellowship in the Arizona House Church Movement over that issue. I wouldn't break fellowship over you being dispensational, reformed, charismatic, third wave, anabaptist, baptist or mainline either. Regarding the Apostles Creed, it states that Jesus "descended into hell". There has long been much controversy over that statement and what it means.

I do not believe that the church has always needed a statement of faith from the start. Just because they have existed, doesn't mean they were needed. Mediators between God and men (Catholic & Greek Orthodox Priests) have existed since early in church history as well, but they were never needed (1 Tim. 2:7). Creeds were developed, used and were helpful, but they were not needed. God has always been quite capable of protecting His truth and He always has. The councils that developed the creeds were well intentioned and combated wrong teaching and I am grateful for them, however the creeds that came out of them were not absolutely necessary for the the truth of God to move forward.

I would like the Bible to be our creed (Hebrews 4:12) - "The Bible the whole Bible and nothing but the Bible." Yep, there will be many interpretations of various passages just as there have always been. Creeds and Statements of Faith most often address heresy or define who we don't want to be a part of our group. The Arizona House/Organic Church Movement wants to embrace all Bible believing groups (as far as I understand) and, as far as I know, there are not any problems that we need to address theologically. If they do arise, we can address them directly but we don't have to codify them in position papers on our web site.

I want each church or network to be responsible for what it believes. Each congregation is responsible before God to handle fellowship issues (1 Cor. 5). I would strongly urge each church/network to have their own statement of beliefs, statements of faith, creeds or position papers on various theological and social topics. The Arizona House/Organic Church Movement is not a denomination and is not trying to become a denomination. It is not even an association and is not trying to be one. I see it is a movement of God upon Arizona. I want Him to be and remain in charge as I know all of you do.

If there is nothing to join, nothing to sign and nothing to pay dues too in the Arizona House/Organic Church Movement, the sky is the limit regarding expansion. People, leaders, organic groups and networks can come and go but the movement will continue. I want God to be in control of this movement with a very strong commitment to community accountability based upon relationship. The Arizona House Church Movement does not control anything or anyone and does not have authority to do so. People will say they are part of this movement without our permission (do they even need our permission?) but that doesn't mean we endorse them. If you are not an organization with standards to meet for membership, you can't endorse anyone anyway! If we want to endorse people, that changes everything, then you will need statements and procedures etc.

A statement of faith or a creed is NOT going to protect us from problems, theological or otherwise. There are many other people and groups out there now that would fully and heartily agree with an Orthodox statement of faith and you would not want them to join arms with us. What do we do if a gay house church network wants to partner with the Arizona House Church Movement and they state that they accept orthodoxy and our statement of faith or creed? If the creed or statement of faith is our threshold of fellowship, we would have a hard time not receiving them based upon our threshold. That is not hypothetical, it is actually happening right now in California. Do you expand the statement to include positions on certain things like homosexuality? Which things? Who decides? What if we don't have 100% agreement on a position paper with people already in the Arizona House Church Movement? You can easily see that this road takes all focus off of our common mission.

I for one want to stay as far away from institutionalizing this movement of God as possible. History teaches us that when movements institutionalize, they begin to become restricted in growth because more and more barriers or hoops are developed for people to squeeze through. Let's let our Father move us forward. Let's have close connections with a few other leaders so that relational authority is developed. Let's agree to be mutually submissive to each other in love.

Leadership, authority and strategy all come out of relationship. That may take more time because we are maturing and are much further along than a group of 5 people trying to make decisions together. More time together naturally will help this process along in God's timing.

In the 12 years that I've been with ValleyLife Network and the 12 years I've served on the Ephesians 4:11 team with Church Multiplication Associates (which reaches internationally) and the 6 years that I've been friends with the House2house movement, I have never come across an organic church/network that wanted to 'link arms' with us that was liberal in their basic theology. It may happen but it hasn't happened yet. As I've mentioned in an earlier e-mail, the two movements mentioned above (CMA and H2H) do not have statements of faith but the networks and churches affiliated with them do. These groups have gone before us with great success without statements of faith. These movements are growing, expanding and very influential not only across the nation but around the world.

Another point to take into consideration is that there are some people/groups who have no desire to be creedal (they wouldn't be) and there are other traditions who will only accept ancient creeds and not statement of faiths. We may or may not have any of these factions in our midst today, but we will. What will we do then. It seems wisest to me have our own (local church/network) statements and creeds and choose to partner together for mission, encouragement, training, support and simply to be part of something greater than ourselves.

I think the kind of commitment and momentum that Darrell expressed in his e-mail is actually happening and I'm excited for it. Although it is true that we are not meeting together and planning powerful outreaches. It may be true that regional prayer meetings are weakly attended. Yet, there is great progress and more is on the way. I know that many of you are very active in hanging out with unbelievers locally and are committed to sharing Christ regularly. I hear often about people coming to know Christ through your ministries. I am contacted monthly (often weekly) by people who stumble upon my name as affiliated with the organic movement and want to start some organic ministry here in Arizona. I know many of you are seeing similar things in your area of influence. Several organic churches/networks are meeting real needs of people in our areas and are making a difference, one life, one family at a time. There is much good happening and more is on the way.

Mark 4:26-29 says this, " 26Jesus also said, "Here is another illustration of what the Kingdom of God is like: A farmer planted seeds in a field, 27and then he went on with his other activities. As the days went by, the seeds sprouted and grew without the farmer's help, 28because the earth produces crops on its own. First a leaf blade pushes through, then the heads of wheat are formed, and finally the grain ripens. 29And as soon as the grain is ready, the farmer comes and harvests it with a sickle."

What I learn from this passage that the crops grow without the farmers help (v. 27). The crops grow because the earth produces them, not the farmer (v. 28). I can see the Arizona House/Organic Church Movement, which is part of the Kingdom of God, growing and morphing into only God knows what and how powerful it will become. It is happening all by itself!

If a more comprehensive or strategic approach is desired, then we should begin by recognizing what has already happened: the larger worship gathering in Sept. of '04, the series of Greenhouse meetings that took place in '04-'05, the Patterson retreat of Jan/Feb '06 and plan another such event for later this year that would include some concentrated prayer, worship, vision, fun and encouragement.

Much more could be written but I speaketh too much already!

Blessings and looking forward to your thoughts,

Ed Waken